![\"Leila](\"https://catholicstand.com/wp-content/uploads/Leila-Miller-Pope-Redemption-and-Atheists.png\")
Secularists and believers alike seem confused by the recent words of Pope Francis when he affirmed that all people, even atheists, are redeemed:
\”The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!\”
Despite what one might conclude after reading the flurry of frenzied headlines that followed, the Holy Father was saying nothing new; the fact that Jesus Christ redeemed the world is age-old, standard Christian teaching. Consider the prayers we traditionally use for the Stations of the Cross
We adore you, O Christ, and we bless You, because by Your holy cross, You have redeemed the world.
Yes, the whole world — which includes all atheists, all sinners, all people, even all things — was redeemed by the Blood of Christ that was shed for us on Calvary. Jesus paid the ransom (the word \”redemption\” literally means the \”buying back\” of a thing), and His atoning sacrifice opened the gates of Heaven, which had been previously closed to humanity due to Adam\’s sin.
\”For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all….\” 1 Timothy 2:5-6
The Cross redeemed all. Bam!
But (and it\’s a big but)… not everyone will choose to accept the redeeming love of God and its invitation to salvation. While God didn\’t need our cooperation or permission to redeem us, without our cooperation and permission He will not save us. God is a gentleman, and He will not bring us into union with Him unless we desire that union. Redemption has come to all of us, thanks to Christ\’s atoning work on the Cross approximately 2,000 years ago, but salvation is an individual choice that we each must make, a gift that we can accept or reject even up to our dying breath.
So when Pope Francis said that everyone is redeemed, even atheists, he was correct! It\’s a basic Christian tenet taught by Scripture, Tradition, and every pope before him — but one that implies nothing about any individual\’s salvation. Let us pray then that every one of the redeemed, including atheists, will one day be counted among the saved.
© 2013. Leila Miller. All Rights Reserved.
55 thoughts on “Pope Francis Knows the Difference Between Redemption and Salvation. Do You?”
you sound like a Bible waving Prot fundie and not Catholic.And I have been both.Now I know it is all insanity.
Wow! I think the “Protestant Reformation” has come full circle. This is the heart of it isn’t it! Both protestants and Catholics should be able to recognize a brother or sister in each other when central biblical truths are recognized (re-discovered?) and affirmed. As someone raised in the protestant camp, I’m so happy to see a brother in Christ in Francis, and so very much appreciate your comments.
YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS
Many, who profess to be Christians, claim the Jesus is just one of many ways to heaven. If men would simply believe that the Bible is the only inerrant source for truth they could not reach that conclusion.
John 8:24 “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins;for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”(NKJV)
If you do not believe that Jesus is the Christ you will die in your sins. No man-made creed book can change that fact. To reject Jesus as the Messiah is the clear path to dying without forgiveness from sins.
John 4:25-26 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). When He comes, He will tell us all things.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”(NKJV)
It does not matter how many Bible commentators or self-proclaimed Bible scholars believe Jesus is one of many ways to heaven, Jesus is the only Messiah.
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. (NKJV)
One way Jesus.
Acts 4:10-12…..name of Jesus Christ….12 “Nor is salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”(NKJV)
Pope Francis says atheists who do good works can go to heaven. Billy Graham proclaims that you do not even have to know the name of Jesus to be part of the body of Christ. Joel Osteen say he does not know if unbelievers will be lost or saved because he cannot judge. These professing Christians are not alone in their views. How sad is that?
PEW FORUM OF RELIGION AND PUBLIC LIFE: 57% of the evangelical church believes there are many religions that lead to eternal life.
IF YOU TRUST THE BIBLE AND THE BIBLE ALONE FOR THE TRUTH, YOU WILL BELIEVE THE WORDS OF JESUS. “IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THAT I AM HE YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS.”
YOU ARE INVITED TO FOLLOW MY BLOG. http://steve-finnell.blogspot.com
This report reminds me of the Obama Admin. Every time Obama says some thing that the world knows is wrong he say some one go out and make sure they clean up his mess for him. If the Pope really fines the way it was written in this report why doesn’t he just come out and say what he really means. Fact is the Pope as with the former Pope is working to build a world Church based in Rome so all religions can come together as one. There is a problem with this as Christ warns us in the book of Revelation that in the last days a false prophet would rise up with the Antichrist and a one world false church would emerge. According to Revelation this false church will be in the city of 7 hills and we all know where that is ie ROME. Something to think about.
Pingback: May Parish Book Club Reminder & Marian Resources | Parish Book Club @ St. Elizabeth Seton Catholic Church, Carlsbad, North San Diego County
Pingback: Catholic and Protestant? - Page 4 - Christian Forums
While I agree that salvation is a choice we all must and commanded to make, Christ did not redeem all, but died for whosoever would believe. Yes there is an element of grace for everyone but that is not saving grace. Only believers experience the saving grace of God in Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9). I agree these distinctions are difficult to understand.
Right on! Most of the confusion among Catholics reflects their poor catechisis.
@Gresu:….if everyone will be saved (=universal salvation), then why be a Catholic, bearing our daily cross?
Where does “justification” come into play here (I come from a protestant pov)
as I would think the Pope’s view on that would clue you in to what he meant in
your article. I see justification coming from faith/belief in the cross, so in
this case belief would have to be part of the scenario of salvation. I’ve read
that this is a sticking point between prot. and cat. so I would be interested in
your insight on this anyway.
It is an unfortunate side effect of a being an institution – like the Church – that institutions preach a message which demands a reliance on the institution itself for salvation – otherwise the institution fears it will lose its power. If people start to believe salvation happens outside the power of the Church to control, churches will then worry about their hold (financial and otherwise) on people.
What if the Jesus’ death was actually suffient unto itself? What if all of us will be saved – eventually? I believe the Church does hold the key to the front door, but God often opens the back door.
For anyone who truly has the Catholic Faith could not:
·
say
that all men are united to Christ solely by virtue of the Incarnation, (Redemptor Hominis, 13.3).
·
say
that the Catholic Church is in communion with non-Catholic sects, ( Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on Some
Aspects of the Church Understood as Communion., 1992) .
·
say
that the Catholic Church shares a common apostolic faith with the non-Catholic
sects.
·
say
that a properly ordered society is one in which all religions are given free
rein to practice, proselytize and propagate, (Vatican II, Dignitatis
Humanæ).
·
say that Moslems and Catholics worship
the same God, (May
31, 1980 in a speech to the Moslems in Paris) and kiss
the Koran, the Mohammedan “Bible” that explicitly states to kill the infifels/Christians.
·
…………………….
The Fourth Commandment obliges Catholics to obey legitimate authority. When the ‘changes began’, Catholics failed to remember they are not to obey sinful directives no matter from whom they derive. St. Paul wrote: “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel to you other than that which we preached to you, let him be anathema” Galatians 1:8.
Tragically, even when new doctrines, new sacraments and new Mass were created not allowing the former faith and attacking Christ’s teachings, Catholics followed so accustomed were they to obey and not question orders that many failed to realize their first obligation is to obey God – Acts of the Apostles 5:29.
It is telling absolutely bizarre that the average layman has such a stunted and infantile concept of religion and God Himself. Infantilism is today’s downfall of man. We would rather play with cherubs, puffy clouds of heaven and “our good buddy Jesus” than face the fact we are all potentially destined to Hell. It’s a tragic and pitiful state of mankind. God’s wrath cannot come quick enough for me.
Excellent! Beautiful. Well said.
Pingback: The Cardinal Dolan Controversy Continues - Big Pulpit
Not so fast, Leila.
The Assisi Meetings led by John Paul II and Benedict XVI stand on the
premise that all are saved from the first moment of life whether they acknowledge or accept it. Universal salvation is for all without works, without Holy Mother the Church, without the Sacraments. . . . . .
Everyone, – the Animist, the Voodooist, Hindu, and Buddhist of the 150 religions of the world were invited to Assisi to pray to their gods for world peace – an absolute departure from the First Commandment of God:
“I am the Lord thy God; thou shalt not have strange gods before Me.”
Faith is reduced to mere human ‘sentiment of religion’. So are you certain of the intention of the statement by Francis I?
Who is Francis I? I’m only aware of Pope Francis.
Re: the Assisi conference -your claims lack actual evidence.
Vatican II Document – Lumen Gentium para. 16 – atheists can attain salvation.
Pg. 61, in John Paul II’s Theological Journey to the Prayer
Meeting on Religions of Assisi, Part I of three, by Fr. Johnannes Dörmann –
“God grants sufficient grace to everyone, not only just men, but even all men who are unbelievers through no fault of their own.” – pg. 63 “…man is automatically a child of God whether he is aware or not, even if he rejects it.”
This book is provoking.
Gresu, that is absolutely right. Everyone gets enough of what we call “actual grace” to find one’s way to salvation. But actual grace does not save. Actual grace are those “nudges from God” that come along to everyone, prompting us to seek out and obtain sanctifying grace, which is the life of God, and which (unlike actual grace), dwells in the soul and transforms it to be fit for Heaven.
More on that here:
http://littlecatholicbubble.blogspot.com/2011/11/understanding-two-kinds-of-grace.html
There is nothing new in the Church’s teaching about actual grace and sanctifying grace.
I just read LG 16 on the Vatican website and I don’t see where it says, “All atheists will be saved.” Are you perhaps reading an erroneous translation?
Who does not have salvation according to L. G. 16?
It states even those who do not believe in the Cross of Jesus Christ can obtain salvation amongst others who seek an unknown God. The Catholic Church has taught from time immemorial that the way to the Father is through the Son. We serve a Triune God, with three distinct Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. All three make One Godhead. Catholics are bound to this truth or there is no eternal life everlasting with the Father, Our Blessed Virgin Mother, Martyrs and Saints.
Do you know the difference between the words “can” and “will”?
As Leila said, it is possible for anyone to achieve salvation. Christ died for all human beings. But humans need to choose to respond to that gift, and either accept it or reject it. Those who freely and knowingly choose to reject it instead choose Hell.
John Paul II Assisi Meetings espoused that all at the first
moment of life receive salvation whether they believe it or accept it.
These are some of the aspects “Universal
salvation” is absent of:
Meditation upon Christ’s Passion and Resurrection
Absolving one’s sins
advancing in virtues
sacrificial offerings
praying for souls in Purgatory
the consequences of Hell
humility
persevering with crosses
discipline
any standard to follow
truth
the need for the priesthood
the need for the Church Jesus Christ instituted.
Universal Salvation has never been taught In the history of
the Catholic Church. It is not rooted in Sacred Tradition.
Sorry, I still see no quote, no citation for your egregious suggestion that the Pope espoused salvation for all from the first moment of life. Evidence from the Pope, please? Otherwise, just please stop with your schismatic talk. It’s scandalous.
Gresu, I don’t know what you are talking about. John Paul II convened the first Assisi meeting in 1986 simply to bring all of those religious leaders together for dialogue and to pray for peace because of the turmoil the world was in. He said nothing about their salvation. And that is the purpose of the Assisi meetings, to pray for peace and to promote dialogue. What better way than to bring all of the religious leaders from all the countries together? And who has more “clout” than the Pope to accomplish this? (JoAnna, Francis I would be Pope Francis.)
The Buddha statue was placed on top of the Tabernacle and incensed. Please don’t make excuses for such heretical action !!!
By Buddhist monks, not by the Pope – and that error hasn’t been repeated. Someone neglected to inform the leaders as to proper etiquette.
Catholic Grammie, what part of the First Commandment, “Thou shalt not have strange Gods before me” did John Paul II and other ‘catholics not get at that sacrileges service? Are you claiming the clergy attending did not know proper etiquette? Why are you submitting to such imbecilities?
Catholic Grammie, Only the Roman Catholic Church has the mandate to bring peace into the world. God never designed strange gods and goddesses as those attending.at the Assisi meetings and who put Catholics to death could ever lead the world to safety. Pontiffs have repeatedly condemned ecumenical-interfaith prayer services.
Gresu, I am praying for your spiritual well-being. There is something familiar in your writing – keep talking and I’ll figure it out. At this point, I can’t figure out if you’re Catholic, anti-Catholic, or what – all I can tell is that you want to fight. I pray that you find peace today and feel God’s love surrounding you. I don’t have time to spend on the internet today – more important family events to attend to. Take care and God Bless.
As of 2008, I am a Catholic out of the post-conciliar Vatican II church and new religion.
Without exception, I believe in the immutable/infallible truth of the Roman Catholic Church.
Facts are very provoking, Catholic Grammie. Think about what I have posted for the sake of your soul and those you love.
Gresu, how could you believe in the infallible truth of Roman Catholic Church and at the same time, disagree with the Pope?
Popes take a vow to change nothing of the received Tradition and vow to not contradict God-pleasing predecessors. Popes vow to not alter, encroach or permit any innovation. That “Oath” makes it perfectly clear that a magisterium that contradicts former magisterium is not
magisterium, for a pope is sworn to put himself outside the Catholic Church if he contradicts what he has received from his predecessors.
“The Papal Coronation Oath” foresees the
possibility that even a pope may become a heretic or schismatic by violating the doctrine handed down by Tradition.
Universal salvation is against divine law.
There have been 41 antipopes and 17 illegitimate councils in the history of the Roman Catholic Church.
I would not believe in infallible/immutable truth if I did not adhere and accept the above. Catholics have a grave responsibility to study the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.
Gresu, you are a schismatic. You do not submit to the successor to Peter. You have no authority to say who is or is not a pope, and unfortunately, you have put yourself outside of the Church. Worse, you are misrepresenting the Pope’s words and teachings. It is a very, very dangerous and prideful path that you are walking.
Leila, the truth of the matter is that not one Catholic
family has not been harmed by these novelties and innovations rooted in the Council of Vatican II. Statistics proof the fruit of it by the many closings of not only Catholic Churches, but seminaries, convents, Catholic
Schools, and the overall diminishing of the Catholic Faith.….. The liturgies in the conciliar church barely have a resemblance to the Catholic Church before the ravagings. I think what is upsetting is the lack of knowledge of the truth of the Assisi Meetings.
Have you read: “Animus Delendi-I Desire to Destroy” by Atila Sinke Guimarâes; “Tumultuous Times”
and “Whatever Happened to the Catholic Church” both by Fathers Dominic and Francesco Radecki;
“The Rhine Flows Into the Tiber” by Fr. Ralph M. Wiltgen; “Pope John Paul II’s Theological Journey to
the Prayer Meeting of Religions in Assisi, part 1 or 3” by Fr. Johannes Dörmann? ……there are more books I could suggest.
I do not need to be right, Leila. I grieve for souls lost and in jeopardy. These are my pleadings to take the time to study what is going on. If what I say is untrue, make the effort to prove it, please.
Gresu, I understand that you grieve, and I am not unsympathetic. But you are in error. I hope you will take the time to read my reversion story (I had many of your grievances) and rejoice!
http://littlecatholicbubble.blogspot.com/2012/11/this-is-my-story-it-might-be-your-story.html
Also, you have still not given a shred of evidence about what you are claiming the pope said. Where is the quote, the citation?
http://www.cmri.org/02-v2_ecumenism.shtml
I listed several books. May I also suggest:
“Work of Human Hands” by Rev. Anthony Cekada
and view this site often:
http://www.novusordowatch.org/wire/index.htm#.Uabx89zn8cw
No, you misunderstand. I don’t want to read through a blog or documents. I want you to cut and paste, or quote, exactly what you are claiming the pope said. Thanks!
Leila, God willing, this will assist you. This is only a thimble full:
“A Single God Who is Good”
John Paul II praised Benin’s voodooists for having “belief in a single God who is good,” but that scarcely tells the whole story. While it is true the cultists acknowledge a deity that is above the other gods, this in no way
can be equated with belief in the Blessed Trinity, for voodoo worships and invokes many gods, including those that are blatantly evil. Some of their gods are thought to reside in animals, including the highly venerated python.
http://1amendmentcont.blogspot.com/2013/03/novus-ordo-watch-voodoo-you-trust.html
http://www.novusordowatch.org/voodoo_you_trust.htm
___________________________________
“.. It didn’t just happen once in Assisi, it happened twice: October 27, 1986 and January 24, 2002. Pope John Paul II gathered representatives from the different world religions in a communal effort to “pray for peace”-
each to their own “god.” This reprehensible pan-religious meeting, entirely unprecedented in the history of the Church, with no Pope before John Paul II ever engaging in such an abomination, is based on the gospel of man and the “ecumania” which has emanated from Vatican II and the Novus Ordo establishment. The Masons must have rejoiced when Assisi I took place in 1986 and now part II just recently a few months ago at the end of January, 2002…”
http://www.dailycatholic.org/issue/2002Apr/apr5mdi.htm
__________________________________________·
“…participate in all forms of non-Catholic worship, including that of the Lutherans, the Jews, the Hindus, the American Indians, the Polynesians, to mention only some; praise the voodoo religion; permit the abomination of Assisi, in which a golden statue of Buddha was placed upon an altar an incensed by a Buddhist priest; permit the ecumenical abominations contained in the Ecumenical Directory.
“…John Paul II is an ecumenist, and not a Catholic. An ecumenist is someone who believes that all religions contain a certain measure of the truth, some more, some
less, and that they all therefore have a certain value. All religions, for the ecumenist, are true religions. Some are merely better than others.
The most that they give to the Catholic Church is that it has the “fullness of truth,” whereas the others have only “partial truth.” But when they talk about the Catholic Church, are they speaking about the Catholic Church which you and I know? No, they are referring to this reformed Catholicism, this new religion of Vatican II, an ugly fake of the true faith….”
Google: John Paul II/Vatican II Errors –
The Apostasy of John Paul II:
by Most Rev. Daniel L. Dolan
_______________________________
Don’t miss Novus Ordo Watch:
http://www.novusordowatch.org/aachen2.htm
I’m still waiting for a quote. You said that the pope said that everyone has salvation from birth. You cannot provide me anything that backs up your assertion. I have tried and tried. You are bearing false witness and that is a sin. As for Novus Ordo Watch, that is ugly anti-Catholic propaganda.
Novus Ordo Watch and Daily Catholic are traditional Catholic sites. They do not deviate from Catholic doctrine. If your opinion is that they are wrong, than the responsibility is for you to prove them wrong – don’t just say it, Leila – back it up. They’ve done their homework. Now please, for your sake and souls around you, do your homework, I implore you.
I’ve given you book sources on John Paul II’s universal salvation. I will try to find some ‘cut and paste’ .
Gresu, you are gravely mistaken. The onus (and culpability) is on those who do not submit to the Successor of Peter. God be with you. You are in a dangerous place, spiritually.
I have been spoon feeding you some factual information that you have not as yet even tried to refute. Yes, it’s overwhelming to be certain. I was a conciliarist, Leila. I’ve been in your religion and have first hand experience and knowledge of the its sacrileges. Right now we are focusing upon the heretical position maintained by the post conciliar church on universal salvation that has been condemned by Pontiffs. Why have you abandoned infallibility of the Magisterial Teachings of the Popes? But that digresses to another topic. Here is more on the heresy of universalism:
“….To see how this (universal salvation) impacts the traditional teaching of the Church on Original Sin, on the Redemptive Sacrifice of the Cross, and on the existence
of Hell, please refer to the four-volume work by Fr. Johannes Doermann, which explains in detail how the Pope diligently weaved his concept of Universal
Salvation into his major encyclicals. Doermann’s collection is available from Angelus Press, under the overall title Pope John Paul II’s Theological
Journey to the Prayer Meeting of Religions in Assisi.
Since the legacy of the Council documents continues to be obscurity and ambiguity, it appears that the safest and best spiritual diet for a Roman Catholic is to
balance the reading of contemporary orthodox Catholic works with a study of the pre-Vatican II teachings of the Church, especially the papal encyclicals, the earlier councils, and the lives and teaching of the great
saints….”
http://www.frankrega.com/wrestlingwithcouncil.htm
John Paul II, “removed from Gaudium et spes (despite the objection of Czech Archbishop Hnilica) any condemnation of the horror of Atheistic Communism. For that
brilliance, he was made a Cardinal by Paul VI in 1967…..
The Encyclical Ut unum sint of JPII, .. and proclaims universal salvation, completely contradicting the entire spectrum of interpretations of the dogma Extra
ecclesiam nulla salus. The details of what many consider to be the most radical of all papal encyclicals are clearly delineated in Quo Vadis, Petre? by Atila Guimarães (Los Angeles: TIA, 2001, pp. 45-52).
{crickets} And still nothing from Gresu but talking points from schismatic works. Umm, I know as a Catholic that universalism is a heresy. That is why I am not a universalist. I am a Catholic, just like the Popes. I hope you come back to the Barque of Peter someday. Many prayers. Please don’t bother posting again until you have an actual quote from the Pope that all are saved from birth. If you post anything other than that, I will ignore you.
Leila – Actions speak so much louder than
words. The twenty plus years seated on
the Chair of Peter, John Paul II demonstrated universal salvation.
Catholics are bound by all the Magisterial
Teachings without exception. To deviate
from one truth is to deviate from the true Faith of Jesus Christ.
Of all the
Catholic dogmatic teachings, universal salvation has been the subject of much
controversy. The Fourth Commandment obliges
us to obey lawful superiors. The
promulgators of Vatican II banked on Catholics’ obedience to the papacy. However, Catholics failed to remember that
they are not to obey any sinful or heretical directive, regardless from whom it
derives. Tragically most Catholics are
now conciliarists of the new man made religion of Vatican II that contradicts
so many of Christ’s teachings and the Ten Commandments. So accustomed to obey and not question orders
they failed to realize that the first obligation is to obey God. Even a man called ‘pope’ cannot sanction sin. I believe John Paul II was the first ‘pope’
not to take the Papal Coronation Oath.
How prophetic for the oath makes it clear that a magisterium that
contradicts a former magisterium is not a magisterium. St. Thomas Aquinas, the “Angelic” Doctor and
principle theologian of the Catholic Church said, “Hold firmly that your faith
is identical with that of the ancients.
Deny this, and you dissolve the unity of the church.” He further stated, “There being an imminent
danger for the Faith, prelates must be questioned, even publicly, by their
subjects.” Even the pope can separate
himself from Christ. We’ve had 41
antipopes.
St. Robert Bellarmine, S. J.,
Cardinal and Doctor of the Church said, “In order to resist and defend onself
no authority is required…meaning it is lawful to resist the Pope if he assaults
souls.
Pope Pius XI in
his encyclical Mortalium animos, 1928, said that Catholics are called to reject
they who bring a different doctrine.
Quo Vadis,
Petre? – Tradition In Action
http://www.traditioninaction.org/bkreviews/G_009br_QVP_Solange.htm
[Where are you going, Peter?]
by Atila Sinke Guimarães … the author of In the Murky Waters of
Vatican II poses the question “Quo Vadis, Petre?
Traditional Catholics
believe in the indefectibility of the Roman Catholic Church, the dogma of papal
infallibility and the writings of the Fathers and Doctors of the Christ’s One
Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Why
don’t you?
I would love to see in the Catechism where it teaches us universal salvation as binding on all Catholics. Where also is JPII teaching Ex Cathedra infallibly requiring all to believe in universal salvation? Also, JPII was validly elected Pope by conclave vote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Your beef is with God the Holy Spirit. The second you deny the legitimate Pope, you defy the Holy Spirit.
Why would you want citations from the “New” Catechism?
Christoph Cardinal Schönborn is the general editor of the CCC and also he is the author of YouCat. As you know
YouCat has been recalled because of errors.
Vienna archbishop, Christoph Cardinal Schönborn in July 2008 bestowed a Pontifical decoration upon an Austrian socialist politician who has been leading in promoting abortion. This is the second time that cardinal Schönborn has bestowed the Order of St. Gregory to a promoter of abortion.
The Order of St. Gregory is the fourth highest award for merits regarding the Roman-Catholic Church. It is directly granted by the Pope and is one of the highest decorations that is conferred on lay people.
Von Schönborn is also known for his rock and balloon
masses and calls the Buddhist, Dalai Lama, Holiness. “Card.” Schonborn recently announced that the very “nature of the Church” will be changing very soon to become “freer,” more similar to the world and with a “slimmer” structure.
Schonborn hosted in his cathedral museum an “art” exhibit by the atheist communist Alfred Hrdlicka, which included a painting of the Last Supper displayed as a homosexual orgy.
And strangely enough, C.C. von Schönborn is the
ecclesiastical advisor at Ave Marie University, Naples, Florida. Why does does a man of his caliber hold this position—-do you know?
You speak of scandals of popes and bishops as if they are immune to such things. The Holy Spirit guides our Church and protects us from being required to believe doctrinal errors. Never once in all of its history has doctrinal error ever entered the Catholic Church despite the sinfulness of some popes and bishops. Scandals have been part and parcel of our Church since its very beginning with Judas’ betrayal, Peter’s denial and with all the apostles fleeing the scene in the Garden. This is what Christ said about scandals:
Matthew 18:7
“Woe to the world because of scandals. For it must needs be that scandals
come: but nevertheless woe to that man by whom the scandal cometh.”
Christ built his Church on Peter the rock, yet Peter denied him three times. Did Christ take Peter’s position away from him because of it? No, He did not. Again Peter acted wrongly when he gave in to pressure about eating with pagans and St. Paul had to ream the man for it, but never did St. Paul claim that Peter was no longer acceptable as our first Pope despite what he did.
If JPII or any other pope acted wrongly then let God deal with him. It is not your place. .
Matthew 23:1-
1 THEN Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples,
2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses.
3 All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not; for they say, and do not.
Your place and mine is to obey what the Church teaches in matters of faith and doctrine. It is the Pope that sits on the Chair of Peter in this case. If a pope acts wrongly let his fellow bishops admonish him.
Why are you avoiding the scandals of Christoph Cardinal Schönborn, ecclesiastical advisor of a catholic law school and editor of the CCC and YouCat?
I am a practicing Catholic Gresu. I do not avoid scandal that comes from within our Church for I cannot avoid it as a Catholic. I am deeply affected by all scandals. But you sir, are suggesting a road to be taken that I refuse to take with you. Schism. You have taken upon yourself the role of judge, jury and executioner of popes and bishops. You’ve made yourself an ecclesiastical arbiter and authority where you do not have that authority. You pick up stones to throw where you see scandal but cannot see the scandal that you yourself are perpetrating.
My suggestion to you is to throw those damned books away, refrain from visiting those websites that you deem so traditional, so traditional that they are willing to scandalize the Holy See for whatever purpose they may have. Pray for the Pope, Bishops and all the clergy instead of demonizing anything and everything they do. Stop attributing to the Holy See your false interpretations of what it means when Pope Francis says Christ redeemed ALL men. What he said was true, just as it is true that not all will be saved because of decisions we make in life. Some refuse to accept this redemption and the salvation of their souls. Learn what that means.
Open your eyes and stop being blinded by your prideful hatred of the post Vatican II Church. Do you know what the BIG difference was between Francis of Assisi and Martin Luther? Francis was called to rebuild and reform the Church. It was in dire need of reform. Martin Luther also saw the need to reform the Church, but instead of trying to help it reform from within as Francis did, he separated himself from her and started his own church and became his own pope. He became what he hated. We see the result of that decision today with the tens of thousands of denominations, all man made.
Be careful Gresu, be very careful. You seem to already have one foot planted in one of Martin Luther’s footprints with the second perilously close behind. I will pray for you.
In spite of the continual promotions of men like Christoph Cardinal Schönborn, you insist on going along with the
new religion fabricated out of the Council of Vatican II. That council does not correspond with Tradition. On judgment day God will ask if you were faithful, not if you obeyed unfaithful authorities. Obedience is a virtue related to the Truth and to God. It is not a virtue, but a vice, if one submits themselves to error and evil. DailyCatholic and NovusOrdoWatch are Traditional
Catholic sites. They are committed to the Magisterium of 260 popes and 20 general Councils of the Catholic
Church.
If a Magisterium contradicts a Magisterium than it is not a magisterium. Popes do not contradict their predecessors. Popes take an oath to ‘safeguard’ all that has been handed on. Vatican II Council has seriously wounded many Catholics with false teachings. You cannot find error in the DailyCatholic and NovusOrdoWatch sites. It is very serious to attack those who tell the truth. Character assassinating without prove is a sinful action.
The Roman Catholic Church, that formerly occupied the Vatican and “the Modernist Conciliar Rome” have nothing in common. Modernists/progressives occupy the premises but they do not teach Catholic doctrine.
For instance some of their deviations from Catholic doctrine are: religious liberty, indifferentism, giving
communion in the hand and to non-Catholics, false ecumenism, subsists IN the church, no need to convert to the Church Christ instituted, promulgating a protestant/Lutheran/Masonic mass on a wooden table………each sacrament changed in
matter and form absent of the grace it signifies, sexualized classroom catechetics in the U S bishop’s schools formerly condemned by Pontiffs, …. These are some points of error practiced by conciliarists.
Every Catholic has an obligation to oppose these errors. Catholics must not keep silent – see
encyclical “Pascendi Dominici Gregis”, by Pope St. Pius X, September 8, 1907, Sec. l.
“ when necessity compels, not those only who are invested with power of rule are bound to safeguard the integrity of faith, but, as St. Thomas maintains: “Each one is under obligation to show forth his faith, either to instruct and encourage others . . . .or to repel the
attacks of unbelievers….”Pope Leo XIII Sapientiae Christianae January 10, 1890
I was a conciliarist and saw first hand the scandals of the priests and the heretical new order mess called the ‘ordinary’ Mass that imposed a continual decline of
faith in formerly good standing Catholics.
How many more Catholic Churches must be ravaged or sold, schools, seminaries, and convents closed before you recognize the intentional destruction within? How
many more victims of predatory priests covered over by their bishops will you tolerate?
Holy Mother the Church is alive and well. I
discovered that to be true in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass said by the traditional Catholic priesthood several years ago. Only by the grace of God go I. Bobby, you are being called also. Will you say, “Yes, Lord, do with me as You will and may I die to myself for the sake of Your glory who deserves all our praise?”
well said
Phil, what you are saying is that the Pope has no understanding of 2000 yrs of Catholic teaching. Come on.
Gee, the first man walked the earth 200,000 years ago and suddenly we have Catholic teaching interjected 2000 years ago…there were many good people in the past 198,000 years before Christ and the human interpretation and re-interpretation of teachings.
I think that Francis knew very well what he was saying…it was quite simple and uncomplicated by eschatological musings of theologians. Francis is a simple man speaking to simple people,,,what counts is being a :good person.” That’s all that God cares about…..Good is the Source is Love. That’s something everyone can understand and rise to.